Hey torontobk...

424 is a good starting point.

The definition of deadbeat on this site means very slothful people who don't really care about fulfilling their contractual obligations.

We understand that people get into situations that take time. IMO... people aren't machines, where as sometimes your creditors want you to repay your debts in a machine like fashion.

As I've mentioned in earlier posts... I've had all sorts of people as clients. I've seen people worth millions of dollars with a bad credit score.

I'm hoping that you will take a stand that today is the day that you start to improve your credit score... slowly and steadily.

Hey guys! They "YAY" was for the timing. I'am not worried about a judgement , I can face the music.

It's just that a situation exists where I have higher priority need occuring in November. I can guarantee you that it is not a frivolous expense.

After I'am done with that expense any money remaining is the creditor's.

I'am not a deadbeat , I just need time.

What music is that: "I ain't got no money, honey?"

[cf. "Chantilly Lace," The Big Bopper]

Raymond,
When torontobk first asked about small claims court he and was worried like crazy. He had more questions than answers.

Now he's got the answers.

It's also important that torontobk took the initiative to contact the courts to get the answers.

He still has to face the music, however, now he knows what the music is.

Dear Monty/torontobk: I'm not sure why a guy knowing that he won't be going to trial (if he will be at all) for another 3 or 4 months would be a cause of "peace of mind." or "YAY!!!"

Maybe he's headed for Afghanistan. I think iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency and Natale Law Offices deliver to there too. Too bad they don't have offices there or in Baghdad.

Ray

Hey torontobk,

Nicely done...

That's the way to do it...a little phone call can give alot of peace of mind!

Update: Called Small claims court , got their trial booking clerk at 416-326-3560 , he said 3-4 months. YAY!!!

There are 2 different levels for civil court action in Ontario, Divisional Court for amounts over $10K and Small Claims Court for amounts under $10K.

Divisional courts have 2 different procedures: a simplified one for litigation amounts beween 10K and 50K and a real long one involving lawyers and big legal fees for amounts over 50K. This last category contains a procedure called "discovery", whereby lawyers for each side present their case and its evidence to the other side. This "disclosure" is very expensive. I had 2 friends, one of whom spent over 50K in suing an insurance company and the other lady, who with her friend, spent 120K suing a another large company. Both had to abandon their case, because of legal fees before the "discovery" phase was even half completed.

The first category of claims that involve amounts between 10k and 50K, have what's called a "Simplified Prodedure" that doesn't involve the expensive "discovery" one.

But none of this applies to you. Your case would be heard in Small Claims Court, where you don't need a lawyer, although many lawyers are seen there BOTH as litigants and defendants.

Now the "discovery" you are referring to is called a "Form 20H", Notice of Examination of Assets. It's only used when the creditor is trying to be nasty and the person who has defaulted on a judgement hasn't made or tried to make any alternative payment arrangements. Before the hearing, the creditor is supposed to send you a financial information form (Form 20I) that you have to fill out and return to the creditor, NOT the court.

It's done because the creditor doesn't know what assets or income you have to seize. You have to go to court for a hearing where you will be forced to disclose (under oath) your assets and income.

The idea is that the creditor should have the information in order to give it to the sheriff's office, telling him what you have to seize and exactly where to find it. Nice.

As well, in law, the court can issue a warrant for your arrest (Form 20J) that's good for 12 months. They can toss you in jail for 40 days in contempt of court if you are really trying to defeat the process.

But I think this is carrying things too far. There's a whole economy that's sprung up in our nation due to the polarization of incomes and people streched to the limit. I call it: "The 29.9% Economy" It's the economy whereby increasing numbers of people are working in low to medium wage paying jobs with ever increasing real (or adjusted for inflation disposable) incomes. This disappearing middle class, as the Toronto Star calls them, are falling further and further behind.

And so, because in business, one man's misfortune is another's fortune, there's a whole industry that's has sprung up to exploit this inevitable inequity. You can see it especially in the used car industry, where almost every dealer now makes a huge percentage of their income off 5 year or older cars that shouldn't be sold to anyone.

I pointed out one example, last week, of a dealer selling a 6 year old Cavalier for $9500 whose market value was about $5500 - given it's condition. Hard up buyers have no where else to turn if they need a car for work. I calculated that over the 6 year, 29.99% loan with the COB, and the service and admin. charges the buyer would have paid $34,500 for that $5500 car.

My buddy who works in loans at the bank, when I showed him the calculation, opined that dealers don't really expect every borrower to go through with the full term of the loans. He thinks that's just a way of marketing cars that otherwise would never sell for a decent buck. Same thing for the finance outfits who back the 29.9% deals; they probably never expect the loan to be fully repaid either. So the same car keeps on getting recycled via the repo man to buyers down the line until it ends up on one of those lots out on Kingston Road.

Likely, the same thing with the $800 computer you buy and end up paying 2500 bucks for. With the 29.9% percent marketing tool, doubtlessly, most lenders in other ares expect a very high percentage of people will default also. Well, ok, in your case the $877 dollar computer will cost you about $1491 @28.99% over 48 months. Nonetheless, oftentimes, these companies have a lot of added in service and admin. fees pushing that amount a lot higher. They figure if you make about half your payments, they come out on top because the opportunity cost real market rate of capital to them is far, far less than 28.99%.

And so, I doubt if most will sue because the expected default rates are built into the high loan rates already. If they did sue, with the target market they've selected in the first place, the lenders know in advance that it's going to be difficult to get anything out of them even with a judgement.

My guess is that none of your creditors will probably sue you. But that's all it is, a guess.

Ray

Thanks again Raymond , Will call them tomorrow and post the status here.

Actually I've already changed my bank , I'am not using the new bank account for anything except payroll deposit and ATM withdrawals.

But I heard that there is some kind of "discovery" step , which the creditor can initiate , where you have to file a statement of your assets with the court. Is there such a step?

Hey Raymond,

Is a FORM 7A a formal document produced by the Ontario government, or is it something that people create themselves?

I looked for the FORM 7A in .pdf format and couldn't find anything..

Sorry...
I missed your post about July 2nd...
I'll look at that right away.