Thanks Monty for your attention. Ontario collection agencies do not have to show the government offices any of the contracts that they have negotiated with the original creditors. Nor do they have to inform the government agencies their plan of action against the debtor. They must however be registered as a collection agency and they must use registered personnel if they are doing the collecting. That is it. After that whatever way they try to collect is up for interpretation and if the case goes to court it more or less is up to the original debtor to fight whatever they are charging the debtor with. In the case of my friend it came down to proving whether or not the purchasers of the debt actually had purchased the debt. They were asked to produce this evidence in the pre-trial. The lawyer showed up with none of the requested documents. As far as I was concerned my friend was free and clear. My friend was also told that he could not be given any type of advice by the judge yet the judge sat and gave the lawyer all kinds of ways of getting around the original request by another judge of producing their documentation. Also the purchasers were given another chance to get another pre-trial date. Whenever. The judge turned around and asked my friend why he doesn't pay the debt to the purchasers. I told the judge that he would not pay money to anybody that just claims that my friend owes money. My friend said that he would be more than happy to pay the original creditor but apparently that is not an option. I insisted that the "purchasers" produce the evidence as had been rquested but the lawyer said that it was not as easy as that. They have had almost three years fromt he beginning of the collection to now. Why do they not have the papers? The judge was surprised when I told the judge that the debt had been written off. What it came down to is that my friend must show up to another pre-trial whenever the purchasers "find" the legal transfer papers of the account. These people are dirty and yet my friend was told that he would not be given advice but these dirty people were. WHY? Is that right? I think the judge should not have allowed this case to go on since the "purchasers" could not produce the legal documents. How does my friend fight the judge on that fiasco of the pre-trial?

Bart,

I appreciate your help with explaining this stuff.

As I mentioned in the earlier post... I've been buried in a project that is merciless timewise... It's consuming all of my time.

All this information is timely and all Canadians need to know their rights with regards to dealing with banks, collection agencies and credit bureaus.

Thanks again Bart.

Hey Mary,
I would get a hold of the contracts and get a copy over to the ministry of services for interpretation.

In Saskatchewan collection agencies have to register all of the documents that they use with the government.

Ultimately, the collection agencies must prove everything.

Also, keep in mind that the banks have an ombudsman with whom you can negotiate and work out problems.

BTW... I apologize for not being able to get to your posts, Mary.
I'm buried with a project that hasn't been very merciful time wise.

Bart......Thanks for the info. What this whole issue has come down to is whether or not the debtor gave the right or signed a contract that states that the original creditor has the right to sell the account to anyone willing to purchase the debt. I understand the concept of running your business as you see fit however when dealing with the public and contracts I would think that the debtors have a right to their info and to the management of their particular account.

I called the Ministry of Government Services and an agent verified the fact that a contract must have a phrase that gives the creditor the right to transfer the debt or else it is not legal to do so. So what it all comes down to is whether the contract signed by the debtor actually spells out this right. The language is confusing as you have seen on my previous posts. It is unclear to me what exactly can or cannot be transfered.

Hello Mary.

You have seen my post under the title..."This area is a free post area" re the issues yuo raised.

If I may repeat.... it seems your question goes directly to two issues... does the creditor have the right to assign your debt account to a collector...and 2..does that creditor have the right to exchange your personal info with that collector.

If the issue is something else..I guess I missed it.

First..the right to assign. It seems that you are spending a lot of time trying to find

info on this "right to assign" on the credit contract with the creditor. I doubt there is a law that says that if it is not there..it does not exist. But I may be wrong.

I have considerable experience in collection matters in two provinces over two decades and have never heard of the requirement that this "right" be specified in the application for credit.

It just seems natural that the creditor has the right to collect..or hire anyone they want to that is licenced to collect.... and to be able to sell their asset...your debt.... .to anyone who meets any provincial legislation..(.ie a assignment of debts act or similar title, if existing in your provincve) ...and for that third party to buy that asset and then collect on it.

Again the car analogy. If I sell you my car and you decide to sell it to your neighbour. Would you need my permission to fo this... of course not.

My earier post also noted that, where there is legislation dealing with the "Assigning" of debts..that legislation calls for the telling of the debtor of the event..in writing and within a given period of time.

If I were you I think I'd be looking to see if there is any of this legislation in the province versus studying the heck out of the credit appliocation...but that's just my opinion.

The second issue re the creditor's right to give your personal info to the collector..is again covered in the credit application. When you signed it..in the small print covers this right to exchange info.

How could the comapany be in business if it can't tell any of its partners..ie the collector of the details in order to carry out the business..part of which is the collection of the debt.

Hopes this helps and good luck with whatever is happening "in a day."

And keep in mind judgements may not be such a bad thing. They drastically reduce the interest on the debt that accumulates from that day forth in the provinces that I have researched.

cheers

BA

Monty..........The matter which I was inquiring about will be coming to an end in a day. If you do have the time and an answer I would appreciate it. I have since found an older contract that may have been used instead of the one I wrote out a couple of entries ago. Without going through the whole paragraph I will copy the line that I think tells the story and perhaps you can give me your view.

This next condition is the fourth one that is outlined in the contract.......iv)the credit card services may transfer some or all of the information to a third party including the creditor as part of a transfer of all or part of the creditors credit card business (collectively the "Purposes"). The credit card services may provide some or all of the information to external service providers who process the information only in furtherance of the Purposes or in accordance with applicable law.

Monty.....If you have the time could you please look over the statement that I wrote out a few entries ago. I will need the information within the next few days as to whether it seems as if the debt is transferable . I appreciate whatever you can do.

I would like to add, once again, that the collectors actually purchased the debt. Does "servicing the account " include selling the debt?

I would like to thank you for your repsonse. I will look forward to your analysis.

Hi Mary,
I've been swamped lately.
Give me a few days to get back to you on this.

Thanks for the follow up.