I would like to remind other bloggers who complain about credit bureaus and collection agencies violating various laws with impunity, that there is a solution.

Change at the bottom won't happen without change at the top. Logic 101.

The current Ontario Minister of Consumer Affairs has continually demonstrated an unwillingness to enforce the very consumer protection laws he's responsible for administering with respect to credit bureau, debt buyer and collection agency compliance. Though it strains credulity, there have actually been collection agents on this forum bemoaning the behavior of Comsumer Protection.

This antipathy usually masquerades itself as indifference or perfunctory response syndrome. Correspondence from his office imbues the impression it might as easily have been written by the credit bureau or collection staff being complained about. It's difficult for the public to interpret his attitude and actions as coming from someone dedicated to consumer as opposed to credit industry protection.

Creditors, collection agencies, debt buyers and credit bureaus. Make no mistake: credit industry groups, while supposedly distinct, really form one big happy family. And it's most disconcerting to see the Minister of Consumer Affairs vanguarding that family. It may seem harsh, but one has only to experience the enervating lassitude and deplorable lethargy when dealing with the staff in Consumer [Non]Protection.

The time for change is long overdue. Only by sending a sufficient number of complaints to the proper authority will this issue be addressed. When dealing with a provincial minister, that authority is the Premier's Office itself. That's why Mark Silverthorn, recognizing the above issue, addressed his request for the replacement of Brian Pitkin to Premier Dalton McGuinty's office.

Howvever, influential he is, there is a need for more formal complaints than his alone to generate sufficient impetus for a Pitkin about-face or resignation. Such a conclusion is corraborated by the disciplinary hearing lawyer Deanna Natale (of Natale Law Offices) is scheduled to undergo on Jan.11, 2011 by the Law Society of Upper Canada. Doubtlessly, Silverthorn was important in advancing its cause; nonetheless, it took the complaints of many others to make it happen.

There is a copy of the letter Silverthorn sent to McGuinty calling for Pitkin's resignation on his website. Might I suggest those who also have experienced frustration with credit bureaus and collection agencies not following the very rules and legislation they themselves drafted, call Brian Pitkin's office directly at (416) 326-8802.

Don't bother sending a letter to him as it will be a waste of time. Instead, explain the reason for your complaint and ask what he'll do to resolve it. When and if you find he's done nothing but have one of his assistants send you a pointless form letter, then file a request with the Premier's Office requesting that he be pensioned off (unfortunately with a 6 figure severance). Complaining to your MPP won't be very effective.

http://www.collection-calls.ca/mark-calls-resignation.html

It's alright to complain on this forum, but, ultimately, for change to occur one has to move higher up.

I'll get Silverthorn to pass on your words of encouragement to Natale.

Let’s all not get excited about Natale; she does have her day in court yet.

Well, whatever Silverthorn's interior motives were/are, the point remains he is being instrumental in getting rid of 2 obstacles to Consumer Protection, Brian Pitkin and Natale Law Offices. Thousands complain about the credit bureaus (carelessly or deliberately) allowing negative information on their reports; data often wrong and illegal, costing them serious harship, financial and otherwise. Until Pitkin is replaced by someone who isn't a friend of the collection agencies and their creditors; and instead avidly enforces consumer legislation, then nothing will change.

And Natale? What can be said about her treatment of consumers? Find out by attending the Law Society of Upper Canada Discipline Committee hearing on Jan. 11 and 12.

The only reason Mark Silverthorn changed sides is because he could no longer send the letters out himself without breaking the law. If he could still continue those shady practices he would still be working for the collection agecnies.Who is trying to convince the public or himself?

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!

Mark Silverthorn, in an open letter Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, calls on him to remove Brian Pitkin as the Minister of Consumer Services. Brian Pitkin is also the Registrar for Collection Agencies in Ontario. As head of their Debt Regulation Unit, he is responsible for enforcing the 2 acts concerning their practice.

http://www.collection-calls.ca/mark-calls-resignation.html

Unfortunately, given Pitkin's allegience and affinities, under his leadership, it might as well be called the Collection Agency Protection Act. As I voiced in a post last night, considering Pitkin's loyalties, we need a Registrar's Society of Upper Canada as well as a Law Society of Upper Canada.

In the interview with Doug Hoyes, Silverthorn admits, to having sent out over 25,000 phoney threats himself. However, it was different when Silverthorn did it, he tells Hoyes. It wasn't illegal back then.

Well, actually it was, since the Collections Act originated in 1990. Though revisions may have been added in the interim, it's always been illegal for a collection agency or their subagents to make false threats. As well, there was a Law Society's Rule of Professional Conduct, Section 2:02.5 (if my memory serves me correctly) that similarly proscribed lawyers from engaging in false legal threats. Those rules have recently been revamped by the LSUC, but that rule was there during Silverthorn's collection heydays.

But that's all irrelevant now. Yes, I know he's trying to drum up business; nothing wrong with that. And so I think Silverthorn deserves a pat on the back for his efforts whereas before, by his own admission, he deserved a kick somewhere much lower.

Bravo, Silverthorn! Bravo!

I thought it might have been a "Draft" Form 7A, since they refused your initial offer of $7K. You can see a phoney Capital One example on the CBC video link in my previous post. More phoney ones out there than real.

Anyhow, the decision has been made for you and so you need to download the various Small Claims Court guides from the link below if you haven't already picked them up at the court house. That way, you'll be ready and save on paralegal fees.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/guides/

There's a pretrial settlement conference whose date you will be notified of.
Make sure you show up to it. Follow the sysytem and make it work for you from hereon in.

The object of the mandatory pretrial settlement conference is to avoid trial

through negotiation. And the essence of all negotiation is that it must be "win-win" situation for both parties. Regrettably, not all parties are aware of this and may adamantly refuse to budge in their demands. Whatever the situation, you still need to try But forget about the $2500 in legal fees as they were surely thrown in as a ploy to create unsupported wiggle room in order to seek a higher final settlement or award.

In Small Claims Court there are prejudment and post judgment interest rates which may or may not be the same. Unfortunately, with credit cards and such, the prevailing loan agreement rate is what's used in Ontario, and not the Court default rate of 5%. Lamentably, anything below the 60% usury rate is legal. Make an offer that excludes interest as of at least the pretrial date, or perhaps the card write-off date. Also you may want to ask for monthly payment terms.

If they fail to accept your offer, it will go to trial. Have your wife explain her difficult financial situation again to the judge, and request a lenient payment order with no interest while not in default. I've seen them spread over 30 years for amounts such as you owe, but that might be a bit much to expect in every case. However, even if you draw a "Judge Judy" at trial, you can always appeal any payment order or garnishment with a Form 20Q (Notice of Garnishment Hearing)

Once again, I assume this debt isn't stats barred by being more than 2 years old. From what you say it was defaulted on during 2010.

Thank you for the comments Daniel! The form we received is indeed a real 7A as was confirmed by small claims court this morning. We will definitely file for defense this week and since nothing is at stake except money owed on that CC I won't be acquiring legal help. What worries me though is the fact that they did not accept our initial offer as you pointed it out.

Out of $11,300 that is being claimed, the actual money spent is around $6000, the balance is interest, over limit charges and "legal" fees, so I am quite confident that we won't end up paying the whole amount.

What happens in the court? What does usually happen after the settlement has been agreed on? Can we pay in installments? How much time is usually provided?

Woops! I spoke prematurely without checking. Ex-collection turned consumer advocate lawyer Mark Silverthorn has details of Deanna Natale's upcoming professional misconduct hearing with the Law Society of Upper Canada, regarding the use of misleading court documents such as the one she's so well known for: "Draft" Statements of Claim (Form 7A"s) for Ontario Small Claims Court.

http://www.collection-calls.ca/natale-homepage.html

Silverthorn's website also carries has a CBC report by Wendy Mesley and Lynne Robson on Natale's activities, including a Silverthorn visit to her office. Notably, he was wise enough to stay outside. (Probably a good idea since Natale, after an acrimonious split with Total Credit Recovery, took her wares to Global and replaced him as their collections lawyer.)

The report features a short interview with Silverthorn lamenting these [infernal] things were mailed out by the thousands.

Silverthorn gets some credit for enforcement against this abusive practice. And he should as he has well placed connections in the government and the credit industry. His letters commanded more attention than that of ordinary consumers.

But credit should also be given to the ultimate cause of change: the large number of people submitting formal complaints so as to force those in charge to take notice. After all, Brian Pitkin let this practice blissfully continue for years as did the Law Society of Upper Canada.
Ask Silverthorn how many of those forms he mailed out when he worked for collection agencies.

If I might be so bold, I think it's an illustration of the communicative power of the web. This forum started hammering Natale's practices back in 2007. That generated a fusilade of blogger complaints resulting in several hundred thousands hits; and her practices being disclosed on other many other prominent blogs and sites. Shortly after that, and surely, non-coincidentally, a born again Silverthorn announced the success of his lobby efforts on City TV to coax Brian Pitkin of Consumer Protection to say he would finally enforce the 17 year old law. Well, Pitkin promised he would .....sort of. However, it appears he never did. It was all window dressing to curtail negative publicity, making it tough to believe his allegience was on the side of consumers. If there was a Registrars' Society of Upper Canada, Pitkin would have been in trouble.

Realizing this and knowing collection agencies were circumventing the Collections Act via the use of collection lawyers, this forum continually remonstrated with aggrieved bloggers that their only effective recourse were complaints to the Law Society of Upper Canada. Intially, collection lawyers like Deanna Natale and Pomer & Boccia were able to brush off these complaints knowing that Brian Pitkin, by deliberate inaction, was on their side. But because of an increasing number of complaints, multiplying through forums like this, it could only be a matter of time before such contemptuous attitudes of the law would no longer be tolerated.

Interestingly, the phoney Form 7A, shown in the CBC report, was from Capital One's collection lawyer, likely the same one who contacted blogger minbel1.

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