Great Scenario!

Ok... here's the scenario. You refuse to pay the debt... and the SOL has not passed. The original creditor (or he who purchased the debt) takes you to court. You say "it's a photocopy, it could be doctored. The statements could be false, or forged, or do not prove the debt is mine. You maybe even go so far as to deny the debt is yours... under oath.

The judge says "show me your wallet, credit cards, or bank cards with your signature on it".

What shows up? Does the signature match? If so, how did they know what your signature should look like? And, of course, why didn't you notice these credit card statements coming to your house? So... let's say in spite of all that you deny it was yours... in comes the analyst (assuming the forgery is so clever the judge can't tell the difference).

If the signature is not yours... no problem. The analyst will know the difference. If it is yours, you're on the hook for the debt, and probably pissed the judge off enough to be looking at perjury charges and the absolute maximum allowable court costs being assessed against you... and maybe even some form of damages against you.

You can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it right... or even a defensible position. I just can't shake the feeling that you're looking to go down a dangerous road...

Okay,

Thanks all for the info. There are a loy of grey areas though, and I honestly believe that the burden of proof is on the new "owner" of the debt to prove that the debt actually belongs to the person they say it belongs to whether they have statements with or without signatures, and/or whether they have the photocopy of the original signed document which opened the account. These papers are photocopies and can easily be doctored. Now, I am not saying that this happens but short of the debtor actually admitting that this is his/her debt and charge without a doubt, I do not think that the new owner of the unpaid debt has a leg to stand on. This is my opinion. It may be totally misguided but this is what I have gathered with all the info that has come my way. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

I should modify that to include "the debt cannot be enforced legally once the statute of limitations has ended".

Hey perplexed...

There are many ways to prove a person's identity...
SIN, address, date of birth, even passwords that you give if you sign up on a website.

Ultimately, if they take you to court, you'll have some proving to do...
A person's Identity isn't something a company can take lightly.

Technically, if you took your pieces of government issued ID to consumer protection, etc they would be able to verify who you are.. Also, you could go to a notary public who could notarize a signature.

P.S., this is not a morality website. We do encourage people to stay within their agreements.

It would be foolish for us to tell people how they could try to get out of a contract with a lender. Why would we want to do that type of thing :)

You're right... it is not a morality site, and I would never presume to sit in judgement of another's morality.

However, if there is a legally incurred debt, there is no legal method to get out of that debt... short of proving you were coerced or tricked into incurring that debt... either through duress, because somebody in authority coerced you into it, or because somebody with credentials you had reason to trust tricked you into it. Even if there is a case of buyers remorse now, you, at the time, chose to enter into the contract. (some types of deals you have 10 days to legally extricate yourself... ie door to door salespeople).

Otherwise, you pay the debt or you take the hit to your credit report... and risk being sued. It really is just that simple.

If there was no legally incurred debt, you dispute it with the bureaus and, if there is a document with your signature, you do an identity theft report with the police - and send it to the credit bureau as proof of your claims... and place a fraud alert on your credit report.

Montyloree

Thank you for your info. My next question is if they can produce the contract with the signature how can it be proven that it is the debtors signature?

Angella

I would like to thank you for your attempt at answering my question. Some info was useful to me and I am sure the rest if not all is useful to others that have logged onto this site.

I would like to add and with all due respect, I am asking the question for a reason. It is not your place nor your concern whether it is a charge that I or anyone else is trying to get out of. Also this is a money advisory site not a morality site.

Actually, if they send you a card in the mail that you did not in any way request or agree to, as I understand it, you are not obligated to pay the debt. Credit card companies used to send pre-approved cards in the mail that way. Now they send you something you sign and return before they'll send you a preapproved card. As I understand it they lost that battle in court years ago. This is just something I've heard though... and never researched.

As for the rest... if you agreed to the card, verbally or in writing, you are obligated to pay for it. If your signature is not on an original application (because it was online, or because it was a verbal thing) it is on every sales slip for every item you have purchased since the day you opened the card. And each sales slip says "the cardholder agrees to reimburse the credit card company for this amount"... or words to that effect.

Why do I get the impression this is your debt and you're looking for a way out of paying... preferably without taking the credit score hit...?

hey perplexed...

It sounds like the question goes to "was there a binding contract created". A follow up question: "can the creditor produce this binding contract, if one exists, should this go to court".

There are different ways that contracts can be binding. A signature is the most obvious. However, creditors use other ways to make contracts binding.

Example 1: You get a credit card that you didn't sign for. If you use the credit card to charge a purchase, at that moment you have agreed to the terms of the contract.

Example 2: You are talking to the creditor on the phone and they say, "can I get you to affirm that you are giving us authorization to go ahead with this credit card". This recorded affirmation will serve as a signature.

Ask for the original contract
What you need to do is ask the creditor for a copy of the original contract that you signed to create the debt. The one with your signature.. If they don't have the signatured copy ask them what type of proof they have that it's your debt.