The problem - as I've stated 423,000 times - is that most people (except for the Deanna Natale crowd) who write in, DO owe the money, but can't afford to pay it. Generally, if the could have, they would have. Something has happened to prevent them from doing so.

I am completely baffled by the incorrigibly naive "weltanschauung" some people have of the universe. Does no one read what bloggers are saying in their posts in this forum and others?

They're stuck, kaput, up the creek without a paddle. Instead of commiserating and offering helpful advice to them, some respond by relentlessly morphing their view of others' reality to make it conform to an over simplified theory of what they misunderstand it to be.

If one reads what bloggers are actually communicating in the posts, 95% of them are saying, "Yes I do owe the money, but I can't afford to pay it now. I feel trapped; what can I do?"

Asking some mindless collection agent for what his license is or a statement of account is going to do absolutely nothing to help their case. Nothing, nada, nein, zero, zilch.

Collection laws may mandate no more than 3 phone calls in 7 days, but debtors are not governed by this law. In fact, they are only bound by CCC Section 372(3), which deals with what constitutes criminal harassment. Which usually means you can do a lot more than they can.

Ray

It's important to let the collection agent know that you're not intimidated with their call.. It's important to let them know that you know your options and your rights.

It's also important to let them know that you don't mind calling the Consumer Protection office.

angella,

sometimes we've had people who genuinely don't owe money get hassled by a collection agent. These people need a good script to use to take control of the conversation.

I'm still chewing on this idea of scripts while i'm on my holiday. Other than that I am getting some rest.. finally!!

If you don't owe them any money the best thing to do is say so. Tell them you don't owe this debt, that you need a statement of account/transaction history and you need the creditor who claims you owe the account to sue you.

If you're going to write, ask them to send you a copy of this account by reference letter as Raymond says. Make a point of telling them that you most certainly don't recognize this account as belonging to you and you are sure there must be some error but that if they send a transaction history of the account you will most certainly look into it.

They have to send you this within 30 days or send you a letter stating that they cannot and why they cannot.

They won't do either.

Here's where the fun starts...

After 30 days, call them yourself. Call them... oh 3 times a week complies with collection legislation and still annoys them. Tell them you are still waiting for your statement of account. Ask them how long they feel it is reasonable to wait for the statement as you have been waiting now for xx days/months/weeks. When they try to lay it back on you... as they will... point out that, had the account actually been yours they would not be calling you as you most certainly would have paid it, so you would suggest they either figure out who it actually belongs to and contact them or provide the proof you requested. Repeat as often and for as long as it entertains you.

If they contact you by mail after you deny this account or if they contact you by phone after you deny this account, call them and ask them for whatever proof they found that the debt belongs to you as they must be able to prove that once you deny it. Then repeat the phone calls asking for proof and/or transaction histories.

Most importantly of all... if it's been that long they can't and/or won't do anything to you... so HAVE FUN with it!!

Yeah, that should really send 'em into panic mode.

Ray

I like the concept.

With scripts we would need about 20+ lines to counter the 20+ things the collection agents are going to say.

What we could do is add an area in the sentence where a curse word could be appropriate..

Collection agency script sample
IE... Dear collection agent...
I am going to contact consumer protection now to see what my rights are... please don't contact me again or I'll be (?**..**?) angry with you!!

Er, that would be me, but I don't think you'd need very many to cover dealing with a collection agency. One template fits all since they all use the same manual.

Besides, some of the lanquage you'd need might offend the delicate ears of your readership.

Ray

hello,
I was thinking about the word script..

I'm curious to know who introduced the idea of scripts on the site here?!!

That's a really important idea that we should develop. I LOVE the idea of having a list of scripts that people could use to rehearse if they get a call from a collection agency.

It would help people be better prepared and thus more confident when talking to a fast talking hard driving collection agent.

This is something we should pursue more of.

I could create a separate page for these scripts as I think they're something people would regularly use.

With Regards to Optingout not liking confrontation... I haven't given that much thought...

How do you deal with a collection agency and try to be polite? :)

I got a call from a collection company from the U.S. who was collecting an item with regards to my business. I didn't agree to the charges. Because it was a collection item on my business I didn't worry that it was going to hit my personal credit report.

This guy was rude and wanted me to call him "Mr So and So", Needless to say that I wasn't pleasant. I asked for the contracts involved in the transaction. He refused and I refused.

The thing that is important is to get into the offense. Start asking questions of the collection agent, such as, are you licensed in my province.. I need proof of your license before I talk to you.. I find that this disarms the collection agent because they know they have to ocmply.

You can question in many different ways if the collection agency is in compliance with all of the collection agency acts requirements. The next thing to do is threaten to contact the consumer protection if they don't comply with your wishes.

The time that D&A collection called me, I was polite and firm. I asked to call them back, and I got the person's name and phone number.. My next call was to consumer protection to see what my rights were. The girl at consumer protection recommended that I asked for their licensing information. The logic was, if they don't provide their licensing information, it might be a bogus and illegal telephone scam phone call.

D&A never did provide their licensing information and thus, I never did talk to them again. It also turned out that the collection agent that called me wasn't licensed in Saskatchewan.

I was polite and firm.. I didn't scream at any body. Because I did some research, I felt confident with what I was doing.

As you can see from "Optingout's" posts as well as those from so many other bloggers, there's a whole variety of people that want to deal with collection agencies via letter instead of the phone. Some claim they don't owe; others do but can't pay or don't want to; and, still others would be willing to settle if the terms were sufficiently amenable to them.

Their one commonality is the feeling of intimidation by collectors. Therefore, because they are unable to deal with the confrontation, they insist on being contacted via letter. So no, it isn't only those who don't owe the debt in question that insist on written communication. Those who genuinely don't owe a debt have nothing to fear because the creditor will never be able to get even a default judgement without at least a copy of a signed account agreement and billing statements presented to the court.

Obviously, if a situation occurs where the person doesn't own the account, then a letter to the creditor or credit bureau would be in order. Even in these cases, a phone call can generally take care of a case of mistaken identity.

Nonetheless, if you look at the submissions, both here and over at the Canadian Financial Wellness Group's forum, the bloggers almost always do owe the money but can't hack being harassed by collectors over it. They try to solve it by using only missives. That's usually a bad idea.

In any event, whether they owe it or not, if bloggers follow some variation of the previous telephone script, they shouldn't have too many problems with agencies calling them.

Ray

PS: Monty, what about that match with Boogaard? I had a hundred bucks riding on you.

Hey Raymond,

QUOTE:
With respect to the issue of writing letters: I was referring to cases where people are being hassled by a collection agencies over debts they can't or won't pay and are worried about getting sued at some point in the future either by the original creditor or by a 3'rd party who has purchased the debt.

With regards to collection agency debts...

If you legitely owe the debt but can't pay it, then don't write letters. I'll agree with that... the collection item is on your credit report and thus the damage is done.

The only reason you would write a letter to a collection agency is if you don't acknowledge the debt or any of the details of the debt.

If you're disputing late penalties or interest charges from a collection agency, I've found that they're just not cooperative.

We've seen many people post on here that they got charged "$800" interest from a collection agency on a legitimate debt. The debtor doesn't know anything about the interest or late fee.

If you're serious about disputing the item and the collection agency isn't going to fix the $800, then letters may be in order.. One to consumer protection and one to the collection agency.

I guess I would sum it up that if you're disputing something then letter writing is important.

If you're fighting a collection because you owe the bill legitely and can't pay the bill legitimately, then don't write letters. That just gives the collection agency more fuel.

The agent at consumer protection even admitted that after a certain time that the debt has gone past due... ie 4-5 years it's almost stupid to pay it off.. It's just going to go back on your credit report for another 6 years.

So Ray,
I think we do agree on this subject!!