I have an update...finally, after getting the Fraud report from the police from when we first made the complaint, (by the way, you have to go down in person, request it, pay $40.00 and it takes about 2 weeks) and we received the report from TransUnion (we're still waiting for Equifax & Experian). There were 2 collection agencies listed, CBV & MJR, there was also Fido(I thought is was teleus prev.), & Rogers Cable & an unknown address. Well we called TransUnion and I spoke to a Christie, who was very helpful. I gave her the occurence # and this is what I was advised. She will be sending it to Investigations, who will put a Fraud alert on the Credit Bureau and that will be for 5 years, the investigation dept. will contact the Collection Agencies, Rogers & Fido.She's removing the inaccurate information, and sending out some information about Fraud and what to do. What I don't understand is why the police won't go after these (this) person. Who lives at 1318 Dundas St. E., (I searched on the internet, so it's public) there are 2 names M Haq & T Neal. And the Gov't does not issue you a new SIN #. I'll let you know what happens with the other 2 Credit Bureau's.

The 3rd one is new (about 2 years old) and is called Northern Credit Bureau. Located in Quebec, we usually tell our clients to pull this if they live in Quebec and/or they have been victims of Fraud.

As for the Collection Companies continuing to call, that doesn't happen once we get involved. We inform the company & the Collection Agency to no longer contact the client until the issue gets resolved and they don't. Most of the Collection Agencies have dealt with us & know that we always get results (not always in their favour). What they do know is that we will report them if they don't follow the legislation with regard to Collection activity.

They've just recently stopped phoning a sick friend of mine. After 6 years! Every single day. He is the type that doesn't like confrontations so he got a second line on permanent call answer dedicated just to them. (And the selfish bugger refused to have their calls rerouted to my phone in order to deprive me of the pleasure of dealing with them).

Well, you could what he did I suppose. But, as for me, I like confrontations. Their calls were a tonic to my spirit. Unfortunately, they didn't see it my way and never called for very long. They talked a good game but they all folded like a house of cards after their idle bluffs got called. Oh, well, C'est La Vie.

It all depends on what your style is. But even if you don't believe me, you've seen from your own experience just how much point there is in trying to reason with 'em. See Milo's correspondence last week for example.

Lisa Morrison has given you some good advice on what steps to take to correct the problem but that may take some time to implement. Until then, they're probably gonna call. I hate to say this (uh' um) but you gotta hammer 'em back. Sorry, I can't go into all the nitty gritty details on this website where everyone's got to be so "Kathy Lee Giffordish" to please Monty. But just think, how would Nancy Grace, Madonna or Rosie O'Donnell handle it?

Too bad. The phone never rings any more. I'm getting downright lonely. With all the spare time I have left over from not hammering them, I'm posting blogs.

Ray

Thank you Lisa, the 2 I'm aware of, Equifax & Transunion, what is the 3rd please.

We have dealt with situations like your boyfriends on many occassions! Many people get the run around by all the companies in trying to deal with Fraud issues. No one likes to deal with the mess. Here are my recommendations:

> Pull all 3 of your Credit Reports.

> See what damage this Collection; Telus; and any other fraudulent activity has caused. (If you are having trouble with this, then contact me for instruction in reading them)

> Mail a copy of the Police Report, Occurance#, and detailed letter to Telus, the Collection Company, and all 3 Credit Agencies. Send Registered Mail specifically to Telus & the Collection Company. Ask for a Fraud Warning to be put on all Reports to prevent any future use of the stolen ID.

> Get your Updated copies of all 3 Credit Reports to ensure all work has been done. Again, if any problems, then contact my company for help.

Ray, you have been a tremendous help. They are still calling, and I don't answer the phone. Do you suggest I keep on ignoring them, or should I just pick up the phone & tell them the police have already taken care of it or should I provide them with the fraud report to get them off my back, or should I start harrassing them back with all the knowledge that I've obtained from this web site, i.e. ask for licences/agent #'s, and how old the debt is. Any specific suggestions, as he is not in debt to anyone, and it's a fraud case.

Suffice it to say, just give them back what they give you but don't forget to add "interest." The reasonable and sufficient use of force self defence principle. If someone was going to physically assault you on the sreet wouldn't you be justified in defending yourself? If someone is going to invade your home and unjustifiably make your life chronically miserable via the telecommunications route you are also allowed to defend yourself using reasonable force. Section 372 subsection 3 of the Criminal Code (if my memory serves me correctly) deals with the issue of harassing phone calls. Collection agencies get away with egregiously abusing this rule to harass people literally to death as you can see on my recent posts about iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency and John Dowling. And yet when iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency called me about a 407 dispute, I got rid of them in one day (or maybe it was two - whatever)

Telling an agency that you're not going to pay and to sue you if they disagree is just an invitation to be put on their autodialler.(very easy to defeat by the way). Since they can't send a bouncer over to your home to "beat it out of you", then they're pretty well limited to suing you, or tring to "beat it out of you" through harassing you by mail or the telephone. Well, the mail is a lost cause so that leaves the telephone.

Generally, if they're calling you more than a couple of times they're not gonna sue you. For $1200, most companies won't. They may even be aware the account is stats barred and just trying to bluff you. CBV in Montreal does that a lot, Well, actually they all do.

The industry modus operani is called "psychological tenderizing" That's why talking to them is counterproductive. Look at my uselss conversations with Milo (I am not a zombie) Bloom. In the military, they call it "softening your opponent up."

They realize that emotions of anger, exasperation and frustration creates a very uncomfortable feeling for most people. So the idea is to chronically get a person to experience those emotions so that a feeling of exasperation (as your case so perfectly illustrates) will overcome him and he'll be willing to accede to your will. It's the same stage 2 technique cops use in interrogations for example (after identification solicitation). Better still, once the collector has gotten you off balance, as in UFC fighting, he can start to bring you down to the canvas. If he can get you to really lose your temper, all the better. Then collectors can use the standard industry retort (stop me if you've heard this before) that you're threatening and harrassing them in the performance of their lawful duty, that all their calls are recorded (to be used as a bogus blackmail threat) and that you will be charged for giving back to them what they gave you. the "man bites dog" ruse. At this point, most people back off which is the exact opposite of what you need to do because then you'll start getting calls from the guy at the next desk in few days and that will start the bombardment all over again. That's no good; you need to fix it so that they don't call gain.

Doctor's appointment, More to say later.

Ray

Sorry, I'm a little thick ...long day, maybe I didn't read enough of the threads, but I'm not understanding what you are saying Raymond. If it's not illegal, why can you not post it on the web site?

How to Talk to a Collection Agent (If You Must)

Ha, that's an easy one. Shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 days. Then you might hear from them once or twice more. But simply drive the stake in again. Same advice as to blogger, the holy and "Reverend Bill Wells" except to add one more hint:

Just think: What goes around comes around, ie. put yourself in your opponent's position. What would it take to get them to stop calling you?

And I'm certainly not talking about anything illegal here. It's so so so obvious. I can't spell out the details on a public website but really it should jump right out at you. But keep in mind that once one agency gives up on you, the creditor will usually rotate it to at least 2 more - the old Total Credit Recovery principle that "persistence wears down resistance" Still, no problem; just apply the same method again. I guarantee that results will be the same. After all the zombies are pretty homogeneous.

Obviously, reasoning with them is a waste of time for they're just like the "undead" in the old Dracula movies, if you are old enough to remember them. They are not there to listen to you. They have only one purpose and that is to suck you dry. Nothing else. Look at Milo, need I say more? By now surely, you must have seen - it would be madness not to- that another method is required. Why do people keep on sending in the same irksome complaints about collectors and expect different results by using the same method i.e., trying to reason with them. They're not rational animals. Well they're animals but not rational.

Since the bulk of postings are from folks complaining about their treatment from collection agents, it seems that what is most needed is a manual, not simply on credit, but a book on how to talk with collection agents (if you must). Even if one was written, the author would probably have to hire a collecton agency to get payment for it from his target market.

CBV! They're my 3'rd favorite collection agency next to Nordon and ARO. They also provided a great deal of side splitting laughter. You didn't say which office was calling you; no matter, all of them are pathological liars and bluffers. Not to be taken seriously, but they are certainly good for comic relief. In my experience, their Montreal office has the biggest pathological liars; but they're all cut from the same cloth (if Reverend Wells will forgive the expression).

By the way, if Telus was going to sue you they would have done so long ago. Maybe a moot point, the debt is likely stats barred if you live in Ontario or Alberta under the new 2 year limitation acts. Not too sure about the other provinces. Agencies will try to bluff you. Keep in mind that a lot of agencies have ATT's ANI (automatic number identification) which will bypass call blocking or unregistered numbers. So if you don't want an agency to call back you use a pay phone. Often they'll try to get you call a 1-800 number by mail solicitation with a phoney offer in order to get your unlisted number so they can harrass you via telephone. Ask Wayne Macleod, Deanna Natale or George Krieser at Total Credit Recovery.

Who said, "There's a fool born every minute?" Was it P.T. Barnum or was it Wayne Macleod et al?

Ray

Please help, about 5 years ago, my boyfriend lost his ID SIN card, and he never thought anything about it. One day he gets a call from a collection agency MDG or something & letter saying he owes $1200+ for a cell phone bill with Teleus. He's never had a cell phone with Telus & hasn't had a phone for about 7 years. So he talks to the company & they certainly were nice, and told him that he would need to place a fraud report with the police, get the number & communicate it to the company. Everything was done. Case Closed! Ha!! Then we start getting calls from CBV, we explained everything (at this point he is soo frustrated, I take over) I explain everything, they tell us we have to call Telus to get them to recall the "collection" keep in mind for them to try & find us, they keep asking for a cell phone # which we never had!, I called Telus, was on the phone for about 1 hr transfered to several people (one hung up). They said "leave a message with the fraud dept. and someone will call you back." No one did, of course. So CBV is not leaving us alone, even though we've explained & explained. That not only is it Identity Theft it's Fraud, and we have no Idea how they got his phone #, which is not listed anywhere under his name!! How/what do you suggest we do to get this resolved! (Thank gawd for Caller ID) Please Help this has now been going on for about a year!