General Discussion - old GST debt - Canada

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RE: old GST debt

Postby footloose » Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:26:42 PM

Thank you very much for your prompt reply. I apologize for the message "this is a test" however I have been experiencing some problems with blogs that are partially completed and then for no apparent reason completely disappear from the website. I have emailed this problem to the webmaster, but he has never returned my email. I have now chosen a different approach to this problem and hopefully this will resolve this situation..

As noted in your recent blog and as I understand it, you and your ex-husband were operating an unregistered sole proprietorship moving all funds into and out of a joint personal bank account. This practice is not illegal and is being done in thousands of small businesses all across Canada. Your ex-husband has been reporting all profits and losses as a sole proprietorship on his personal tax returns while you have not reported any profits or losses on your personal tax returns. I have no problem with this arrangement. However, where the situation takes a turn is in the registration of the GST ( Gouge and Screw Tax ) license. If this business was a sole proprietorship and the evidence certainly indicates that it was, why was this GST license set up in both your name and your ex-husband's name? I can only surmise that because the business was operated through a personal joint bank account that it was felt that the GST license must also be in joint names. Just because a business is operated through a joint bank account, it doesn't necessarily follow that all further transactions, ( i.e. the acquisition of a GST license ) must also be in joint names, especially when the business is operated as a sole proprietorship. However, having said that, we now have to deal with the situation at hand.

Any government license that is issued to any one person or a partnership ( whether the business is registered or not ) for the sole purpose of the collection of monies on behalf of the government are trust monies and the individual(s) is/are personally responsible for the payment of these trust monies whether the funds are available or not. When this GST license was issued to both you and your ex-husband, both of you are liable for the payment of these trust monies "jointly and severally". What this means in layman's language is that if one party does not pay these trust monies to the government for whatever reason, the government can go after the other party for the payment of these trust monies even though this other party had no involvement in the business. The fact that your name appeared on the license authorizes the government to pursue you for collection of any alleged unpaid trust monies. Whether the government will undertake such action is another matter.

In your original blog, you raised the question of the Statute of Limitation periods. Any monies owing to any government or agency thereof, there is NO limitation period. Both the federal and provincial/territorial governments have enshrined in their legislation the "right of set-off". What that means is simply this. If the government owes you money ( e.g. income tax refund, the quarterly GST refund, etc. ) and you owe the government money ( e.g. income tax payable, GST collected but not remitted, etc. ) then the government can subtract any monies that you owe the government from any monies the government owes you. In addition, if this arrangement will not satisfy the debt that you owe the government, they retain the right to seize your bank accounts and garnishee your salary including pensions without having to obtain a judgment or a court order. Something to think about.

In a further reply you indicated that when your ex-husband went bankrupt, he included the GST as part of his total debts owing. I queried you on this matter and asked if you had proof that this debt was included in the bankruptcy. You indicated that you had received a copy of the bankruptcy papers, and while you currently cannot locate them, you believe that this debt was included. While I am not an expert on bankruptcy matters, there are 3 types of debts that are not included in a bankruptcy filing. They are alimony and child support obligations, trust monies and certain portions of some student loans. I would be shocked if a Federal bankruptcy judge allowed the inclusion of trust monies owing to the government as part of the bankruptcy filing. However, you can include unpaid personal income taxes owing in a bankruptcy filing. I would strongly suggest that you further consider checking into this matter.

In summary, I would strongly suggest that you contact your local CRA office and set up an appointment on a one-to-one basis to openly discuss this GST account and determine where all the alleged amounts owing, including any interest and penalties, are coming from. At this meeting, do not admit to any liability or commit to any payment plan. It is simply an exploratory meeting to determine where you stand. Ask for a copy of this statement so that you can study it further. If they are unable to provide you with a copy of the statement at this meeting, ask them to mail you a copy. After you receive a copy of this statement either in person or by mail, I want you to sleep on it for a few days before reviewing it again. It's amazing how some things look after you have had a chance to set it aside for a few days before reviewing it again. By this time, you will have calmed down and hopefully you will be able to recall some previous events that might explain the situation.
Feel free to blog on this site again or send me a PM (Private Message ). If I can offer any further assistance, I will be happy to do so.

Good Luck and have a GREAT DAY
footloose
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 07:12:21 PM
Province: ON


RE: old GST debt

Postby celda38 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:20:54 AM

Oh ok..sorry to hear about your computer problems...they can be horrible.
Thanks
Celeste
Celeste
celda38
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Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:37:30 PM
Province: BC


RE: old GST debt

Postby footloose » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:05:47 PM

Sorry Celeste

My neighbour was playing around on this website. I was having some trouble with my computer and he was trying to resolve my problem. I should be back up and running by December 1. I definitely will respond to your query no later than December 2. Hang in there and I will get back to you.
footloose
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 07:12:21 PM
Province: ON


RE: old GST debt

Postby celda38 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 07:28:52 PM

What do you mean this is a TEST ??
DO you have any answers for me ?
Thanks
Celeste
Celeste
celda38
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:37:30 PM
Province: BC


RE: old GST debt

Postby footloose » Tue Nov 30, 2010 04:13:13 PM

this is a test
footloose
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 07:12:21 PM
Province: ON


RE: old GST debt

Postby celda38 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 08:04:55 AM

You state in your thread that your business was "a PARTNERSHIP on paper". What do you mean "on paper"? Are you trying to say that this relationship was never registered as a partnership with the provincial government? If this is the case, then how were you able to open a bank account for the business? It is normal practice for a bank or a credit union to require a copy of the registration of a sole proprietorship, a partnership or a corporation before they will open a bank account in the name of the business. Also, in whose or what name was the GST registered under? When filing your personal income tax return for 2004 and prior years, do you recall reporting your portion of the profit or loss of the business? If all GST returns had been filed and monies paid for 2004 and prior years, then why is CRA requesting an additional $4,000 in GST? When your husband declared bankruptcy, what proof do you have that any unpaid GST was included in the filing?

There is obviously a missing link to your blog. In order for me to properly respond to your queries, you will have to supply answers to the above-noted questions. I am happy to assist you in resolving your problems, but as Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make any sense, then it's not true".

My REPLY

I had to re post your questions to make this easier...
ON PAPER ..I mean only when we called for a GST NUMBER we had it in both our names. It said ME AND MY SPOUSES NAME
We were not INC or anythinng like that
We only ever used our own bank regular joint one - it was his income.so when we got a check for a month of cleaning. He/ we put it in our regular joint bank account
And re the income tax returns I filed. When he ( my ex ) had someone do the income tax they put the the income from the business ( around 45000 or so ) as HIS income and said I made NO income ( as I stayed home with the kids most of the time / did the paper work - invoicing etc and cleaned here and there )
So no income for those years for me....and 2004 I was NOT with him so it was just what little income I made that had nothing to do with that business ./ contract or company name.
From 2000 to end of 2003 I always paid the GST quarterly. I really didn't know what to do but when I called them up they simply told me to pay what I had collected and and that if I had made any purchases to do with the business I could take that GST off.

Well I knew we didnt' PURCHASE much ..so I wasn't about to start playing with that...So IF I collected 900 of GST ...I paid 900 to them.
I wasn't always on TIME...I might be a month late etc..but I always paid them..and continued to for those 3 to 4 years.
The last TWO I remember I sent in as we seperated one I believe was for under 100 and one was for about 400 ...well my ex closed our account so I believe those two MAY have bounced but never got any proof or request for those specifically

In 2004 I did get a notice for Less then $50 that was misses ( like I had shorted the one check by accident once ) I agree I OWE THAT !!
And as I said I think those two last payments I made MAY have bounced.

( I usually am very good at keeping track but 2004 when we seperated was a year from hell - he wiped out our accounts took all three vehicles we had and left me alone with three kids and not a dime - so unfortunately that trauma and survival part has fogged up that year )

I then believe would be the beginning of 2005 that I got notice for about 1800 and that was for the year 2004.

I called them and said I had no part of 2004 hadn't made a dime etc...we then cancelled the GST number so my name was no longer on it etc.

His brankruptcy papers I saw ...and do have a copy SOMEWHERE...and there was that year $1800 on there that he was claiming along with many other things ....But I DID see it and it was on the papers I had receieved a copy of the papers as he owed me child support so hence i was one on his list of people he owed.

All these years till I re married last year...I have received personal gst...they ( the CRA ) has never garnished or done any legal action except to call

Like I said about 2005 or so I sent in an appeal form asking for it to be erased and they denied it of course....

I have never promised them or paid any money
I was TOLD that I should pay it and then I can fight it.
Well as a SINGLE mother of 3 kids with an ex that has maybe handed me $500 A YEAR !! I have never had a spare $4000 to throw their way.

May I add that 2004 was 1800 owing...that under $50 ..and then they went and re sent me one with an extra $1800 for 2001 which to this day I do NOT UNDERSTAND as I said earlier I always paid...I paid late but always paid.

So hence almost $4000 plus their interest etc.

I believe your quote from Judge Judy but trust me...I DO NOT LIE nor do I believe in lying and was just so happy to find this site that may actually help me out....I wouldnt' waste your time or mine !!

I am trying to think of anything else that may help but I think that is pretty much the most

EXCEPT also please note the first time they sent me a BILL for the almost $4000 bill there was not INFORMATION on it

I was shocked shaking and scared so I called them up and asked where they got that NUMBER.
Asked for a record of all my payments etc...printout...and to show where these payments were coming from

They said they would send if I didn't get it in a month to call....I must have called for 6 - 8 months before I got anything.

Thank you again for any help and time you can give me

Much appreciated

Celeste

Celeste
celda38
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:37:30 PM
Province: BC


RE: old GST debt

Postby footloose » Mon Nov 29, 2010 06:39:07 PM

You state in your thread that your business was "a PARTNERSHIP on paper". What do you mean "on paper"? Are you trying to say that this relationship was never registered as a partnership with the provincial government? If this is the case, then how were you able to open a bank account for the business? It is normal practice for a bank or a credit union to require a copy of the registration of a sole proprietorship, a partnership or a corporation before they will open a bank account in the name of the business. Also, in whose or what name was the GST registered under? When filing your personal income tax return for 2004 and prior years, do you recall reporting your portion of the profit or loss of the business? If all GST returns had been filed and monies paid for 2004 and prior years, then why is CRA requesting an additional $4,000 in GST? When your husband declared bankruptcy, what proof do you have that any unpaid GST was included in the filing?

There is obviously a missing link to your blog. In order for me to properly respond to your queries, you will have to supply answers to the above-noted questions. I am happy to assist you in resolving your problems, but as Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make any sense, then it's not true".

I will be looking forward to an early reply.
footloose
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 07:12:21 PM
Province: ON


old GST debt

Postby celda38 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:52:12 PM

Hello I am really hoping someone can help me
I previously had a business with my ex husband in BC . We seperated in Jan 2004. Sometime in 2005 I received notice from the CRA that we owed them for some GST from our small ( just his and mine business )
It was a PARTNERSHIP on paper. I always filed our GST ...and paid what ever we had collected.
When we seperated my ex cut me off from everything business and bank wise.
In 2004 he claimed his INCOME and the GST number he was still using
So the government later sent me/ him a bill for that year also ..
Anyway ...I had no money to pay this almost or around $4000 bill. I was a single Mom with three kids and no money.

He ( my ex ) went bankrupt and included this debt in 2006 I believe...
Since then once I did try to send in an appeal to them to erase this debt as for the year 2004 I never received or used that number ( GST bus number )

Since then on and off they have called me or sent me letters but that has been about it.
I have to avoid since I do not have the money to PAY them this debt nor do I think I owe it all...nor well can I
I was thinking of going bankrupt and including this but I can not afford to go bankrupt either...

I am wondering if the statutes of limitations could be soon over...
From WHAT date though would it start ? Their first notice to me re this ?
I have never paid a dime to them. Not because I am a dead beat...but most of this debt was not mine..some they estimated...and so on.
I tried to fight in and got no where.
My ex also did go bankrupt on this..so any advice you can give me would be great as the phones are starting to RING again.

I hope I have given enough information but if you need more I will try.
I want this icky thing out of my life...
Thank you so much ahead of tiem
Celeste
celda38
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:37:30 PM
Province: BC


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