Debt Settlement - Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter - Canada

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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby frankjr71 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 03:44:50 PM

Jeez sorry I posted in the other forum where there were no replies...LOL

Anyway to whomever said the charge is theft under $500.00 (T.J. was that you?) forgot to add the extra zero, it's theft under $5-thousand dollars.

Some time ago the threshhold was theft under/over $200.00 (see the movie made in 2003 called "Owning Mahowny" where Dan was charged with theft over $200.00 when he stole upwards of $10-million from CIBC to have a good time in Atlantic City and Vegas)..."It's like the Superbowl in there!!!" Shit, if he had just left right then he would have been up money enough to pay back the bank, but I digress...

Then it was increased to theft over/under $1,000...

and more recently now it's theft over/under $5,000.

Golly, gotta love inflation!

Generally, theft under is prosecuted as a summary (misdemeanor) offence and theft over is usually prosecuted as an indictable offence. This is roughly equivalent to a felony in the U.S. Both crimes will render you inadmissible to the U.S. as they are considered "crimes of moral turpitude". No, not turpentine, lol...that's used for paint thinner silly!

So there's your edumacation for today as I have f all better to do today except to spew gray matter :))

But as for the O.P. don't worry so much, you're no Dan Mahowny... Or our erstwhile rip-off artists residing in all levels of our government giving us bad examples (hey, they should know better!)

Phillip Seymour-Hoffman played Dan, and I've followed his career since then and as you can tell I'm a fan...
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby sweeneykitkat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:38:43 AM

YEA!!!
The representative finally got back to me, and we had a brief talk. This will obviously never happen again! I explained how bad things had been at the time for me. He said everything's fine and they wont be pursing the case. He hopes my health gets better. Really glad I didn't choose to ignore it. Once again, thanks for the advice here! :)
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby sweeneykitkat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 09:04:25 AM

Thanks for all the advice T.J as well as Hank. Should I hear anything else I'll update this forum, but I definitely agree I need to stop worrying about it and get back to dealing with my health. I haven't returned to the store more out of respect then anything. There were no criminal charges and the store said don't worry about it, but I still wanted time for it to blow off. My blood work is being properly monitored now so I wont be pushed to that breaking point again. I've got enough phone tag going trying to contact specialists and surgeons.
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby TJ.brooks » Fri Jun 14, 2013 08:44:14 AM

They send them to everybody and hope some will just cough it up.

Time to stop worrying and wait to see if it goes any further. Don't contact them again....just wait and see.

Old saying...you can't get blood from a stone pretty much sums up your case....and they know it.
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby sweeneykitkat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 08:37:14 AM

The ground beef that was in my bag had been there for a bit and the decision to not pay was only made at the end when I was going through the cash, I had put a box of cereal through and realized I didn't have the funds to pay for the ground beef and I was growing quite sick feeling. It all happened really fast.

It's been 2 days and the number from the letter said they would get back to me in 2 business days. In the original message I had explained the entire situation and left my ODSP member number as proof. Spent a bit more time trying to contact help but still no answer only machines.
I guess I should stop worrying about, though I'm now paranoid of getting served, and once again the letter wasn't even signed or dated so I wonder how valid it really was . . .

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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby TJ.brooks » Fri Jun 14, 2013 06:44:58 AM

Hank...it is not illegal to place items in your pocket while in a store. It is a weird shopping habit perhaps but the actual offence of theft occurs only when you have left the store without presenting the items for payment.
Many people go to say Home Depot and select a number of small items....lets use loose bolts as an example , have no basket and place items in pocket while they continue to shop around store. Yes you could say they are attempting to steal them....but no judge will convict as to have theft you must prove intent, and again all you would need to say is I was going to present them when I was done my shopping. Reasonable doubt. If you walk in put something in your pocket and then within a minute or 2 walk out...yes sure that's theft. If you have walked around for an hr and are now holding several items in your hands and then buy these items and forget you have the small item in your pocket ....is it not possible you forgot.
Again a weird and bad shopping habit, but not illegal.

You could walk around grocery store eating all the pkg food you want.....not illegal as long as you present the empty pkg for payment.

The act of theft occurs only after you have left the property without attempting to pay thereby transferring ownership of that product.

Anytime prior to that the best the store could claim is attempted theft.

Which will not hold up.
I speak from having had over 5 yrs experience as a Floor Walker and as a former Mgr of Loss Prevention with Canadian Tire with over 600 arrests and 500 trials.

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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby HankBlank » Thu Jun 13, 2013 07:20:19 PM

It was a lawful arrest whether inside or outside the store so long as it occurred when the event took place or immediately after. Otherwise, anyone who could grab a watch and make it past the door would be home free. But just let it go. If you can't pay, give them $2 a week or something with a letter of explanation as to your financial circumstances. It'll show you're not shirking the debt. Or just forget about it altogether.
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby sweeneykitkat » Thu Jun 13, 2013 04:28:00 PM

There was no way he could have known about my medical issues before talking to him, so I don't hold the arm grab against him.
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby sweeneykitkat » Thu Jun 13, 2013 04:26:22 PM

Right as I passed the bars connecting the store to the rest of the mall.
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RE: Disabled with unsigned/undated Civil recovery letter

Postby TJ.brooks » Thu Jun 13, 2013 04:08:01 PM

Just curious did he approach you inside or outside store?
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