Mightydread,

The lawyer you spoke to is 100% correct, very unlikely someone would get sued but it does happen and is a nightmare if you are one the chosen few.

The things a collection agency would sue someone on is if the employment seems steady and the income would warrant a garnishee order, also like you said a property being owned. If both of those exist is a lot more likely to be sued because the houses never go anywhere unless sold or foreclosed so a lien is a good way for a creditor to secure the debt.

Now, I've given the act a first read (~25pgs for those curious), and one thing that keeps popping into my head is: How does one really know that they are receiving a copy of all the information a Bank or C.A. has on file?

Taking calls as an example: If calls are in fact being recorded, then having an employee transcribe the call into a printed document would certainly take time; so my guess is that it'd be easier to say "we don't have any recorded calls" (then perhaps safely tuck those calls away) - thus, leaving the onus on the debtor to prove that's not the case. ... I suppose if that scenerio were to happen, those tapes would be useless/dangerous in court - if it ever came to that; but on the flip side it also protects the creditor/agency from a debtor initiating any action with the creditors media.

On the record, I lightly massaged M.D's template letter and then fired it off to a couple banks. It'll be interesting to see what I receive in return - especially seeing how both accounts are past the SOL.

MightyDread,

Just getting caught up on this thread and wanted to express my thanks to you for taking the time out to share this information. I'll be reading over the act in depth over the next few days and may inbox you if I encounter a need for further clairity.

O.C.

I agree with mightydread, that creditors will not sue unless you have assets or they know you have a gov’t job etc.There was only one creditor that sued me because they knew I had a home. The rest that did not know did not sue. I am glad the pipeda letter came to my attention now that I settled my debts with these collection agencies.

nameuser

I absolutely agree with you that financial institutions and especially CIBC keep better records than collection agencies do.

The point that I am making is that under PIPEDA an organization (collection agency, Bank etc) has to provide you everything they have on file for you.

I have already used this once to get a collection item off my credit report because the company did not provide me with the contract with my signature (my consent) that said that they can disclose my information to a credit bureau.

As for collection agencies suing people, I agree it does happen. But I have spoken to a couple of lawyers about this and they have told me that the chances of it happening are very low. Based on their stats they told me that 1 in 10,000 debts are sued by collection agencies. The lawyers told me it only happens if the debt is large enough for the creditors to pursue. Also, creditors will only sue if they know that the debtor has assets worth going after (i.e. house) or a high paying job. I know that there is no set rule for this but the chances of it happening are very low.

nameuser, did you work for CIBC or a collection agency? Do you have tips based on your experience for people on how to avoid getting sued. Or what to do if you are sued. It might be worth starting a new thread for that.

Mightydread,

CIBC would be the best creditor to use that on, they save everything and make agencies save every letter and record phone calls. Most other financial companies do not have such strict standards as CIBC with how collection agencies are supposed to deal with their debtors.

Most agencies won't record calls unless the bank wants them to, so their usually isn't much more info that a credit bureau,

And I used to sue people for CIBC through an agency, which I am glad not to do anymore, but can assure you agencies do sue people. Global, CBV, NCO and ARC are the agencies to watch out for if you are in canada and could possibly be sued for a bank debt.

Mightydread,

Nice work on the pipeda information. I am going to use your letter now and send it to the collection agencies that put me in the credit bureau without my authorization, now that I settled most of my debts. Someone mentioned about being added to a companies hit list, I hope they add me to their hit list and their black list lol.

Cheers

Again, Nicely done!! MightyDread.

This is a key for people who visit this site.

This is something that everybody should be exercising with creditors.

At the time I dealt with Privacy Commission, with regards to clients, the PIPEDA was brand new, and there wasn't much precedent set yet.

I wrote letters for clients, however, we didn't receive much of a result because the law was so new.

Obviously now, there must be some precedent set..

I encourage everybody to write to Privacy Commission and complain, as MightyDread has successfully done!!

This is a big break!

Here is the complete version of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) on the department of Justice Website:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/P-8.6///en

Ottawa_Chap

Q. Who is responsible for picking up the tab for the mailings, etc.?
****************
4.9 Principle 9 — Individual Access
An organization shall respond to an individual's request within a reasonable time and at minimal or no cost to the individual.
****************

I have never been asked to pay for any information that has been sent to me. I have received information from various financial organizations and collection companies.

I have received a package from CIBC about my student loan file via Purolator Courier. This included everything dating back to year 2000. They sent me everything they had on file. It was about 80 pages. All letters that they sent to me and that I sent to them. Also, copies of the original student loan contracts. Letters to CIBC form CollectCorp regarding my student loan file. All the notes on from their system about my file (i.e. all the incoming and out going call logs). And a lot more.

Q. Also, I wonder if a request of the sort might elevate a person on the company's "hit list"?

This is not the case in my experience. Most collection companies already break the law so what will they really do? Threaten to sue you? I don’t personally know anyone who has been sued by a collection agency. But I do know people who have been threatened, that includes me.

If you know the laws and tape/document all correspondence then they really can’t do much. The debtor has all the power as long as he/she is willing to fight back using the laws already in place.

Monty

Q. What is the pipeda paragraph that speaks to this letter?

Under section 4.9 of Schedule 1

************
4.9 Principle 9 - Individual Access
Upon request, an individual shall be informed of the existence, use, and disclosure of his or her personal information and shall be given access to that information. An individual shall be able to challenge the accuracy and completeness of the information and have it amended as appropriate.
************

Note: This has to be a written request. It cannot be verbal request.

Nameuser

A phone call or letter containing your name or account number or SIN or address is certainly considered “personal information” according to PIPEDA. So this would include credit reports and letters sent to you. This has defiantly been the case in my experience.

According to PIPEDA defines “personal information” broadly as “information about an identifiable individual.” According to the Commissioner’s Guidelines, the definition encompasses such information as name, age, weight, height, medical records, income, purchases, spending habits, race, ethnic origin, colour, blood type, DNA code, fingerprints, marital status, religion, education, home address and telephone number.

Pipeda doesn't require an agency to provide you with anything more than your personal information and information on how it is protected.

A phone recording or letter that was sent you isn't your personal information, so the agency would just have to respond with the security measures they have in place to protect your SIN and DOB and probably tell you when they pulled a credit bureau at most.