Collection Agencies - CBCC - will they sue? ---urgent - Canada

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A Tale of Two Cities

Postby Raymond » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:52:05 AM

Last week I discussed how the dynamics of free, or relatively free, capitalism inevitably lead to the polarization of incomes and thus an ever increasing proportion of people who are consigned to poverty in Canada.

An example I used was that of how most of the well paying blue collar manufacturing jobs have disappeared in Ontario. As a second example, I mentioned how the the wage RATE of tractor trailer drivers hadn't increased in 15 years and would soon asymptotically approach the minimum wage rate. The former was caused by the outsourcing of work to cheaper labour markets while, conversely, the latter has been substantially caused by cheaper labour market insourcing.

The story was dismissed as worthless and fictitious by the web site owner; however, not everyone agrees.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081021%2fincome_gap_081021

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RE: Debt Relief Firms - Brian McNulty

Postby Raymond » Mon Oct 20, 2008 08:29:49 PM

30%???? Silverthorn says it's 1:10,000 or .01%. You're out by 300,000% Ha! Ha! What do you expect for $15 a letter, high grade vellum?

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RE: Debt Relief Firms - Brian McNulty

Postby Ottawa_Chap » Mon Oct 20, 2008 08:19:51 PM

Ray,

It's kind of funny that you mentioned Brian's name in an earlier post, as I just opened a piece of mail and sure enough it was a demand letter from him, on behalf of Amex. Interesting that they didn’t splurge on quality letterhead, instead they used a template within MS Word, I presume, and printed on standard white paper.

If they've pulled my bureau file lately, I'm sure they've discovered that I'm pretty much wiped out! Wonder if I'll fall into that 30% category of people that are actually sued? Not much point in doing so, so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

O.C.
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RE: Debt Relief Firms - Watch out.

Postby Raymond » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:24:45 PM

Well it may be unlikely, but I don't know about that 1 in 10,000 thing. Silverthorn's sample includes the number of files of all types that end up on collectors' desks, not just credit cards. It's bad scholarship to pull numbers out of the air like that without any supporting references.

Credit cards don't comprise the whole gamut of collection agency activity but they form a large part.

That number, if valid, would imply that there are only about 30 cases in a given year where people are sued in Toronto at all levels of court over defaulted credit cards. And yet our courts are filled.

/threadview/1357/7794/2.html

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RE: Debt Relief Firms - Watch out.

Postby montyloree » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:11:00 PM

Listen to this interview, where Mark Silverthorn talks about the fact that it's highly unlikely that a collection agent will sue.

/archives/2008/10/Mark+Silverthorn+-+Lawyer+-+Helps+Canadians+Fight+Collection+Agencies.html

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Debt Relief Firms - Watch out.

Postby Raymond » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:04:48 PM

http://www.budhibbs.com/

"Dealing with Collectors 101"

Budd Hibbs is the best. Should be required reading for all Canadians even if he's in the US and the rules are different.

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RE: CBCC - will they sue? ---urgent

Postby Raymond » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:54:19 AM

There's not much point in ANYONE trying to answer questions like these - nor will I from now on- where the person is too lazy to put down any details of the problem including the province where they live, dates and amounts. Otherwise, they are wasting their time and that of others.

You did the right thing referring him/her to Consumer Protection. Then someone else will waste their time - big time.

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RE: CBCC - will they sue? ---urgent

Postby transcanada » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:42:01 AM

If your step daughter is over 18 then then you need to tell the next person who calls you, not to call again or you will be filing a consumer complaint.

Secondly, in Alberta the statute of limitations is 2 years, after that they cannot sue you. Check with your provinces credit/trade legislation.

Also it's likely this is a 'factored' account because it is a few years old, which means this collection agency has bought the debt. I had major credit problems years ago and I got a few of these lawyer letters myself. They are only intended to scare you. If these letters dont work then the next to come will be a settlement letter, which is where they will ask for say $1000 and the debt will be considered paid.

Ask your daughter though to get a copy of her credit file so you can see whats on there.
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RE: CBCC - will they sue? ---urgent

Postby Raymond » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:06:09 PM

Will they sue you? Dragging out the old crystal, let me look into it and see? Foggy...still foggy.... becoming clearer now........... wait I see something, what is it I can't quite make it out..... Oh, yes there it is - I see it now!



How the heck is anyone supposed to know if someone who skips out on a credit card will get sued? You didn't say which province you are in but it's probably Ontario.

Credit Bureau of Collections Canada has an office on Dunlop Street in Barrie, Ontario and Brian McNulty, whose letterhead they use for 15 or 20 bucks a pop, works out of Charles Street in Milton, Ontario. CBCC services mostly the Kawartha areas in South Central, Ontario. If that's true, then the limitation period on the debt is is 2 years from the date of default. And so it must be coming up for being stats barred or close to it. Hence the reason for the last gasp legal demand letter.

But even if Amex was going to sue someone for 2000 bucks who had no assets or income, they in all probability would have done so a long time ago. I'd put it at 100:1 they are bluffing.

HOWEVER, PLEASE NOTE:

There is a trend sweeping the US and it's starting to emerge in Canada.

You word your post as if you expect that your daughter is safe from being sued because she has no assets; you expect she is judgment proof. It's often implicitly assumed that a large company will not waste their time coming after someone who has no ability to pay or assets to seize.

However, some companies will go ahead and try and get a default judgment by sending the Small Claims Court statement of claim to the last known address even if they know the person doesn't live there any longer. Sometimes by deliberately sending it to the wrong address and then falsifying the affidavit of service to the Court saying the statement was never returned to them so as to sneak through a default judgment. Often, if a debtor is young, they may not have any money currently, but a judgement is good for up to 20 years. Later on in life, your daughter may aquire assets and have a good job. Creditors, especially the American ones, know this and as soon as a default judgement is rendered they slap a Form 21 (writ of seizure) on the debtor encumbering any of the 3 categories of seizable assets they might acquire in the coming yeras

Mark Silverthorn mentions in his book that a good defence against being sued is to be broke. That's supposedly makes one "judgment proof." That may be most often true but it's not always; at least not anymore. See www.budhibbs.com if you disagree. Trends in the US invariably reach Canada.

That's why you should be careful with respect to the (albeit small) possibilty they can and do serve your daughter with a statement of claim. If so, make sure she files a statement of defence with the Court. You can represent her as long as she signs it. Getting hit with a Small Claims Court claim for 2000 bucks is no big deal, but being slapped with a default judgment would be - as several recent visitors to this site have learned the hard way.

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RE: CBCC - will they sue? ---urgent

Postby Ottawa_Chap » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31:17 AM

Can't provide you with a specific answer, but I owe the bastards much more then that and they haven't transferred the matter over to a Lawyer as of yet.
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