It was a lease to buy at the end of the 53 months it was mine to own. The number are what was faxed to me and getting any more information out of them is like pulling teeth I have offered them 25% and they are telling me no way ANd I do appreciate you help and advice and I plain to show I am willing to settle once I get the rest of my documents but I think they are off with there numbers

??? Having degrees in science and business, I know math well, but I don't have enough information to calculate how they obtained those numbers. I also don't know what the contract terms were; whether it was a lease with a purchase option etc.

I'm sorry, I can't spend anymore time pulling teeth. Offer them whatever you think is fair or you can afford or let them take you to court, as they probably won't.

Ray

I got off the phone with the Music company and they faxed me over a copy of the contract I signed in 2001. I live in Ontario the contract is from St John Music in winnipeg. The contract states that I am to make monthly payments out of my bank account in the amount of $34,13. for 53 months At the bottom it states that I have read and understand the terms of the agreement. Problem is that page is missing I didnt get that faxed over with the page that has my signature on it. Then the Music company sent print outs of my payments from my bank account. They match my records until we have the date in question In May 2005 there was a balance owing of $448.19. In July I told them I was changing banks and sent them a new voided cheque. It took me till Sept to get the payments going again and so I was in arrears I sent a bank money order to them to catch up. I have a copy of that money order and it was cashed. I have the bank faxing me bank statements from Sept and onwards. They dont have any paper work showing any thing past Sept. 2005. The interest rate is showing as 1.33% a month. They have also included a bill for the Instrument they said I owe in amount of $ 1,695.00 as of today. So they want the $1,695.00 the $448.19 the $300 in Interst payments. I read what you wrote about the you cant come after me in excess amount. If my bank records dont show any more money coming out then teh problem happened when I switched banks. They also said the matter is with collection and every day more Interest is adding to my bill. I read carefully what you wrote and so now the question is when my bank records come and I am not up to date with my payments after sept 2005 then what will they take to settle according to the jerk I talked to they want the whole amount The collection company want to sue me but like you wrote I live in a different province so that may not be in there best interest. So 25% may not fly with them.

A number of points need to be mentioned.

1. You'll seldom go wrong by telling a collection agent to go and screw themselves.

2. Legalities aside, ethically, you should get the matter cleared up as soon as you can reasonably do so.

3. There's a whole boat load of things you can do if you bothered to read my previous post. Despite repeated inquiries, you never bothered to say where the transaction took place. Was it at St. John's Music Store in Winnipeg? If so, then Manitoba law governs. If it was in Ontario, it would be stats barred after 2 years but if it's in Manitoba, it's 6 years since you last made a payment or gave them a signed written acknowledgment.

4. Under their Consumer Protection Act, you're entitled to an accounting statement of the amounts owed. If they come after you for anything in excess of that, the creditor/collection agency is subject to a 300% penalty. That's a pretty neat clause. (Too bad Ontario doesn't have one like it.)

That's why I said, if your figures are anywhere close to being correct, and if they sue you for the amount you state, St. John's is going to end up owing you money. It would be a good idea to get a demand letter from them outlining the allocations they are claiming so as to have it in writing.

5. It's impossible from the information you present to tell how much you were actually in default as of your last payment in May of 2005. Additional interest and penalties depend on the terms of the contract you signed and you don't include any details of that agreement. However, it sounds like the implicit interest rate is somewhere between 26 and 29%.

6. I figured if I took the time to type all that stuff out with the link and appropriate sections, you would at least take the time to read it.

7. That 72 hour deadline stuff is standard collection agency posturing. i.e., a big pile of birdsh**. Think about it! The account has been delinquent for over 3 years and all of a sudden they want everything in 72 hours! Right! It's easier for a collection agent to try and scare the person into paying than going through all the legal recovery steps.

Taking someone to court, especially who lives in another province is a time consuming and somewhat expensive process. It also involves the extra cost of transferring a writ of enforcement to another province should they get a judgment. As well, it usually involves a pretrial settlement conference and it can take several months after that to reach trial. They would have to serve you with a Statement of Claim and give you 20 (or 40 days for out of province service) to file a Statement of Defence. However, if the amount(s) they claim are in excess of what you actually owe, naturally, you would want to file a countersuit along with your Statement of Defence for the 300% differential penalty.

Because it's in another province, it wouldn't be feasible for you to travel there. You would need to hire a paralegal who operates in that jurisdiction to defend you. However, that could be arranged over the phone. Not too sure of the cost, maybe $250 to $450 - but I'm just guessing.

8. If the case was to be held in Ontario, it would be a no brainer to tell them to sue you. There it would be stats barred anyway.

9. The collection agency is probably banking on the fact that you live in another province to intimidate you, inferring you wouldn't be able to defend any court action and so they could easily obtain a default judgement.

Recommendations

A) Demand a statement of account from the Music Store to find out what you actually owe. If the zombies in Accounts hang up on you, call them back and insist on your legal rights. Your object is to find out what you actually do owe and use that as starting point in any negotiation, should you decide to pay them at all. Don't let that stop you from reconciling your the actual payments made with the account agreement you signed. You need to do this for 2 reasons (1) The store may well lie to you or not give you anything AND (2) it's a starting point for any settlement negotiation or counterclaim should it come to court - a fact which I highly doubt.

B) Once you figure out what you actually do owe them or something close to it, you can, as I said, negotiate a settlement - if you wish. Given a debt that old, I think collection lawyer Mark Silverthorne might suggest 25% to 35%. (I don't want to put words in his mouth.) If it had been sold or rotated to several collection agencies by now, I might suggest 10% to 15%. The percentage refers to what you actually owe, not what they are claiming you owe. The only way the company could ever hope to realize 100% is if they took you to court and were completely successful in convincing a judge the amounts they sought were coincident with the original contract terms.

C) I don't have a crystal ball but given the 3 year+ time lapse involved, I would offer them a greatly reduced settlement to be accepted within the same 72 hours, they gave to you

OR

D) Tell them you'll see them in court. The worst case scenario is that you would have to hire a paralegal. I could be wrong but given the modest amount claimed and the time lapse, I would wager about 50:1 that they are bluffing and have no intention of suing. Let me know if I turn out to be wrong.

Ray

I have listen to you people and now I want to know the figures I gave the collection agency they dont agree with so do I pay them or do I jsut say screw it and wait for them to come after me

Agreed...
This is a time in the market where if someone has cash, they'll make boat loads of money.

There is a huge amount of opportunity because there is a great deal of fear and doubt amongst consumers. It's a good time to change the way we do things because people are in the mood for change.

Relax, there's lots of money to be made. And believe me, many will make it. I was referring to the stock market. For every loser, there's always at least one winner.

On a sour note, one of the guys who had, not the biggest laugh, but certainly a big one, was Washington Mutual's Alan Fishman, who got a pretty nice paycheck for 17 days' "work."

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/09/golden-parachut.html

Ray

Raymond,
Are you talking to the U.S. Federal Government and the Large American Banks!! :)

I watched the U.S. and Canadian stock markets get dumped on today because they're not listening to the fundamentals of credit management!

My goodness, what a day!

You obviously don't bother listening to what anyone here says so you might as well listen to the collection agents.

Ray

Okay I got a whole bunch of bank records today and was on the phone with the collection department about my daughter Instrument. The orginal contract was made in Sept 2001 In May 31/05 I had $448.19 left to pay according to my bank records. Today I got a letter from them they want the $448.19 that they claim I still owe they want $400 in Interest payments and they want me to pay for the Instrument out right to the tune of $1,1333.14 and a $100 Admin fee. I have offered the $448.19 and have said will pay $200 in Interest and and Admin fee They say it is all or nothing and if I dont pay in 72 hours then I will be sent court papers and then a garishment order will follow and they said that there is nothing I can do about it. So my question is do I send them what I said I would send or wait untill I get court papers.